What's Next, Los Angeles? with Mike Bonin
Los Angeles is at a turning point. We are living in a defining moment. What happens next is up to us. Over the past few years, problems and challenges have shaken this city -- and tremendous opportunities for change have presented themselves. How do we rise to this moment and emerge a better place to live? What will it take to create a more just and a more equitable community? Working together, how are we going to create a stronger, forward-thinking Los Angeles? Mike Bonin, writer, teacher, progressive activist and former City Councilmember, looks at the issues and problems facing Los Angeles, examines ideas, and talks with the people who will lead us to a brighter future.
Produced in partnership with LA Forward.
What's Next, Los Angeles? with Mike Bonin
Rudy Espinoza: Finding the Courage to Fight
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In the face of an onslaught of attacks on civil rights and civil liberties and social justice programs, are you feeling demoralized, or helpless, or isolated?
If so, you are not alone. In this episode, we talk with Rudy Espinoza, executive director of Inclusive Action for the City, about his personal and political search for the courage to stand up, and about the strength he finds in solidarity.
LINKS
Rudy's essay in Nonprofit Quarterly
Info on the May Day events across the country
LA Forward Spring Into Action Event - May 3
What's Next, Los Angeles? is produced and hosted by Mike Bonin, in partnership with LA Forward.
In the face of a wave of attacks on civil rights and civil liberties and social justice programs, are you feeling demoralized or helpless or isolated? If you are, you're not alone. And we'll hear about one man's search for the courage to stand up. On this episode of What's Next, Los Angeles. Hi, everybody, and welcome. It's Mike Von and thank you for joining me. In so many of the spaces that I am part of, from community groups to college campuses to political circles, and even among friends, people are searching for ways to fully comprehend everything that's been happening in this country over the past 100 days. The immigration raids, the attacks on the trans community, the defiance of the courts, the steep, disruptive, and hurtful cuts to social programs, the rapid erosion of democratic norms. It seems like everywhere I go, people are asking not just how to fight back, but many of them even whether they should fight back. People are actually asking themselves, what risks am I willing to take? What can I do without harming myself or my family or my community or my organization or the people I'm trying to serve? They're asking, should I sit back or should I stand up? Those conversations are very real and very difficult for all of us, but especially for immigrant families, for employees of our schools, and for people working in the nonprofit sector, where so many people feel like their work and their organizations are literally in the crosshairs. Earlier this month, one local nonprofit leader, Rudy Espinoza of Inclusive Action for the City, wrote a moving essay in Nonprofit Quarterly exploring his personal and professional fears and explaining the decision that he and his team made to fight back. Inclusive Action works with many immigrant entrepreneurs. Since 2016, they have provided $4.5 million in low interest loans, helping people from low-income, under-resourced, and marginalized communities find capital to open a business. Inclusive actions decision did not come quickly, did not come easily, and did not come without seriously weighing the consequences. I spoke with Rudy on Sunday morning about the decision and the reactions to it. Here is that interview. So Rudy Espinoza, welcome to What's Next Los Angeles. Thanks for having me, my here. It's an honor to have you here. Uh you're one of the um the community leaders who doing great work in Los Angeles that I think is really important to lift up and celebrate. So I'm I'm glad to have you. Let me ask you to introduce yourself and your organization to the listeners, just so they know who who we're talking to here.
SPEAKER_00My name is Rudy Espinoza. I uh serve as the CEO of Inclusive Action for the City. Inclusive Action is a nonprofit economic justice organization based in Los Angeles. Uh we're a certified community development financial institution, which means that we are uh a low-interest lender uh to small businesses that can't get resources from big banks. Uh, we help them with loans and with coaching and a variety of other resources. We believe that they um that the street vendors and brick and mortar businesses in our communities are key. But inclusive action is a special place, Mike, because we are more than that. We have other identities because we realize that our communities need more than capital sometimes. They need systems change, that our systems are designed in a way that keeps them back. And so we have a really talented policy team that advances local and state policy to protect our communities. Um, and we also have an innovation team that's designing new tools to uh support the economic development of our neighborhood. So inclusive action is is is a CDFI, uh, describe us as an economic justice organization, but we are special because we're a lender, we're an advocate, uh, and uh we're innovators.
SPEAKER_01So to make it a little bit more specific for listeners, over the past, I don't know, say five years or so, uh, talk about a few of the the programs you've done or the innovations you've spearheaded or the uh the the policies you've advocated for.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, this year, Mike, is actually our 15-year anniversary since the year that we were founded. Wow. And uh what I tell people is that it was founded by a group of friends that were interested in making LA a better place and felt that we needed to design new ways to approach community development. It started as a volunteer-driven organization. Um, and then 12 years ago, um, I decided to uh step off the board and commit myself full-time to this role. And um, we've done a lot of work over those years, Mike. I think a lot of people in the field know us for our work uh to legalize street vending. We were one of the founders of the LA street vendor campaign uh when we recognized that um street vendors, these microentrepreneurs in our communities are doing so much where we're being criminalized. So people know us for that work. Uh, that work opened the door for our lending capacity because the street vendors were telling us a date. We're worried about how they were going to access resources if the city or the state legalized street vending. And then that opened the door for real estate work, uh looking at how we preserve communities that were changing, that were facing gentrification. But in addition to the street vending work, we've done a lot of really cool legislative efforts. Uh last year we passed a really important policy to support uh, it was the first in a nation uh commercial tenant protection bill that was seeking to give folks that had their uh uh commercial tenants that were seeing the rent increase, giving them more time so they could make a transition and discuss with their landlord. So that we've done a lot of cool things. Uh this year is our 15-year anniversary, and it's it's a really interesting uh time to be doing this type of work. But our team is really talented. You know, our team is really committed and locked in. And we see that despite all the challenges we're facing, we think there's an opportunity to not only defend our communities, Mike, but also to be to build a future that we deserve, that our communities deserve. And so um the team at Inclusive Action is really locked in.
SPEAKER_01Let me zoom in from the the the 10,000 feet down to the the the ground level for an individual entrepreneur, an individual immigrant uh in Los Angeles, what is it you do to help them?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Mike. If you look at our portfolio of businesses that we serve, you'll find street vendors, you'll find home-based businesses, you'll find brick and mortar businesses, majority immigrant, majority women, majority people of color. These are folks that have experienced so many challenges in their lives and can't often can't find a job that's going to take care of their family. So they've decided, hey, I'm gonna build a business. I'm gonna, in some cases, I'm gonna use my skills and my talents to build an enterprise that would not only create a job for myself, but maybe for others. Unfortunately, a lot of folks in our city have a hard time doing that. And they have a hard time getting the resources they need to invest in their business. It takes money to make money. We are a purveyor of capital. An entrepreneur, a stream, if it come to us, they can apply for a low-interest loan. Right now we have an amazing loan product for you. That's a 3% fixed interest rate loan. They could get this capital, they could invest it to buy equipment and to get permits, and then they can also access our team to get business coaching to support the growth of their business over time. And so um, that is uh the work that's central to the work that we do.
SPEAKER_01And over the the the 15 years, how many uh individuals or companies would you say you've touched?
SPEAKER_00Hundreds, hundreds. I think the last uh numbers uh we saw we've deployed over four and a half million dollars in low interest loans um since we started lending in 2016. The first uh borrower uh was uh was a street vendor in the Dinata district, Mike, who's uh was looking for uh in a loan that couldn't find the capital to get a loan to buy a piece of to buy a new oven so you could bake his bread. And that was the first loan back in 2016. And since then, we've done four and a half million dollars in loans. And we've done much more in uh the administration of grants, uh, certainly during the pandemic. Even recently this year, uh, we've done a lot during uh in response to the fires. We see ourselves as a facilitator of capital for entrepreneurs and workers that can't get capital elsewhere. That's part of our work. And so we do it directly, but we also do it, as I mentioned, through advocacy work, through policy work, because we have to also think about how we can pull those levers of change for our communities.
SPEAKER_01So you recently uh wrote, published April 15, uh, an article, an essay in Nonprofit Quarterly. The title was Overcoming Fear and Seeking Solidarity, How We Must Defend Our Communities. And I wanted to talk about that that piece this morning because while you know Nonprofit Quarterly is not the most well-read publication in Los Angeles, uh, I've heard people talking about this um uh that sort of resonated with them a bit. And um uh we'll we'll go through it sort of uh point by point, but you you started the piece on on a very personal note. And your first sentence was this past weekend, a friend asked me, How are you really? The first word that came to mind was lonely. Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_00You know, this is a time where people are scared to share how they feel. They might share it with their family, but you know, you're worried, especially in the public in our public realm in the professional world, to share how you feel. The the word lonely came to mind, and I still feel it out in moments, you know. And I think that I think that just now I'm I'm realizing that I have to really try to combat that loneliness by proactively reaching out to people. And I think that that was the spirit of the article. In fact, um, my team will know, my colleague, uh, my colleagues Eric and Doug will know that I wrote the article and then it sat on my computer for three weeks because I wasn't sure if it should be shared. And and the reason why is because I was combating those the the fears that I talk about in the in the in the article. I was worried about what are people gonna say and is it too much? Are people ready for this type of stuff? And and um when nonprofit Cordoby reached out to me uh to say if I had anything to say about what was happening, I said, Well, I got this article, you know, I'm not sure if you'd like to publish it. And so so there was even I'll admit to you here with you, Mike, that I was even insecure about sharing it publicly because I was worried, uh I was just worried. I was like, I don't know if people are there with me.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I think they are. Um, yeah, I think that part of the reason it resonated is because just from that very first line, I think it it it struck a chord with people that that so many of us, even who who identify as being in a movement space in this in in this time of of so much stuff happening, it it's a it's a scary time and and we've all felt scared and we've all felt lonely. Uh and one of the things you write is that um this sense is is pretty pervasive, and that the the environment is working to keep us isolated, afraid, and silenced. Talk a little bit more about what you meant by that.
SPEAKER_00It feels right now that at least what we're seeing from the federal administration, Mike, is that they are looking to punish anybody that disagrees with them. And in that type of environment, when the environment is punishing you for sharing how you feel, maybe even abducting you for sharing your feelings, it is a natural human response to consider, wow, maybe I shouldn't say anything because I'm worried about my personal safety. I'm worried about the work that I do that I care so much about. Um, and in our field, in the social impact field, in the nonprofit field, even in the in the political field, many of us are worried about that. We are worried about the potential punishment that's on display all over the news. That is what I describe, that's what I try to describe, is that right now we are in an environment that does not want us to speak about these things. In fact, they just want us to say, yes, this is this is okay. It's not me, it's them imploring us to make an excuse why it's okay to punish people for being different. That's kind of where we are. And and so I think that I'm just like coming to a place where I understand why some people are feeling like maybe I'm gonna retreat a little bit. I'm not sure how to respond. And what I mentioned in the article, as I was thinking about this on my own, I was thinking about being bullied as a kid. I was thinking about being bullied as a kid because I feel right now that we are being bullied and we have somebody that is that is seeking to punish us for being different. It just reminded me as uh of of my my younger self.
SPEAKER_01It reminded me of my younger self as as as well as I was reading your piece as a as a gay kid growing up in a small town in the in in the 70s and and 80s, feeling bullied as well. And I think one of the things that that uh you hit on was that that's how that ties into the feeling of uh of isolation. And in this moment where they're they're coming for immigrants, they're coming for the trans community, they're they're they're they're they're coming for for for women's rights, they're coming for so many different things. It's hard to feel that somebody else has your back because everybody's fighting their their their own battle, right? And it it's a it's a very smart way on their part of of dividing us, because it's it it's hard to to to stand and and and and fight with the person next to you when you're when you're getting punched in the gut yourself.
SPEAKER_00It's hard to know what to do. And I and I think also what I the worth in front of us is is to develop uh pathways or new tools for us to have each other's back, Mike. Um, because uh as you just shared that about your own childhood and in your own youth, I makes me sad, Mike, because I care about you. You're a leader here in our region, and I think back of the young Mike, you know, and I'm like, I want to love him, you know. But then I wonder if I was your classmate, like, would I have the tools to have your back? Right. If I saw you being bullied, Mike, like what would I have done? Would I have looked the other way? Would I have retreated? Would I have been worried to have your back because I thought they were gonna come after me too? Right. And so that is like kind of what's happening right now in our space, in the social impact space. We are worried to stand in solidarity with each other because we are afraid that they're gonna come after us too, that we are also gonna be bullied. We don't we we always want to be part of the cool crowd, we want to be on the panel, we want to be on podcasts. Would you still get the invite if you decided to step to stand up with the folk that's getting the folks that are getting bullied? I don't know. And so we really need to unpack that. It's a very spiritual thing, it's a very uh personal, like it's a very personal journey, but we need to get on that journey now and accelerate it because we're because this is what's happening right now is bad.
SPEAKER_01It it's so easy to justify, in the face of that, it's so easy to justify in action behind a noble goal, right? It's easy to say, well, I can't step out and be visible on this because it will impact the work I'm doing and that will hurt others, the people we serve. And that's a that's a big conversation that's happening in the social impact sector, right?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, totally. I mean, um, I have uh inclusive action is our name is inclusive action because we to work with other people. Like we really believe in solidarity, we believe in coalitions, everything that we do, we do it in partnership with other folks. And because of that, we're afforded relationships with different types of organizations. So, Mike, we have some friends that are um social service providers. Let's say that they write Head Start programs and that's a federally supported uh effort. They are really worried. They're like, hey, I have to change the language on my website. I have to uh, you know, um scrub things because if I lose these federal resources, I won't be able to take care of those kids. But you have organizations like that. They have organizations that are kind of in the middle that are that are maybe like think tanks and folks that you know host conferences and like they're worried, they want to be right in the middle and balance this out. Like they don't want to say too much, they don't want to draw the ire of the administration, but they want to kind of be down, but they can't tell you up front. So you have those folks, and then you have other advocates that are stepping up and um and and are trying to that are refuse to scrub, refuse to change because they know that they're on the righteous path. And so I think that there's sort of truth in all these different um typologies of organizations. And I think our work right now is to figure out how we all connect and how we all realize and go through the personal development journey of realizing that we are stronger together and that we and that's this that right now solidarity um is needed. I hope that we can get over our fears so we can seek each other and and work together.
SPEAKER_01I'm so amazed and impressed and inspired by the fairly mid to low level LAUSD employees who stood up to the federal agents who came into their schools. Oh, so inspiring. I mean, they they walked right through their fear. That must have been a terrifying experience. Terrifying.
SPEAKER_00And and you know what? When I saw that, Mike, I was so inspired and affirmed by the work uh that inclusive action is taking on, too. Because when you step out and you might be the first or the second, you're a little worried, right? You're like, oh man, am I am I making a big mistake doing this? And to see other people kind of saying, hey, we're doing it too in this way, and to see the L U S D uh workers and the leadership saying, Hey, this is us. These kids are our community, and we're gonna have their back. And we refuse to let these um ICE officers in is like so inspiring. And and it certainly inspired me personally and our team. And but I and I hope it inspired other folks in the in the social impact sector to think, hey, what am what can I do? And and I think that that's kind of like the call to action, I think, for folks that I'm inviting everybody to consider is every single one of us has a role to play. Every single one of us has a role to play. Some of us might have to chain ourselves, you know, in front of a, you know, in front of a detention facility to like, you know, other folks might have a different path, but we all have to be active right now. And at the very least, we all have to confront our own insecurities and fears, and we have to at least talk to each other and be open to the, to the, to the fact that right now we are in an unprecedented time. And so what's required is unprecedented tactics. We have to think about this different. And so um, I know you're aware, Mike, but we inclusive action joined um uh in a in a litigation uh against the IRS to start to stop the sharing of taxpayer data between the IRS and the Department of Homeland Security and ICE. These are sort of moves that if he would have asked me three or four years ago, is inclusive action ever going to do anything like that, I would have been like, you're crazy. Like we would never do anything like that. But you know, now we're in a moment where it's we have to ask ourselves, are we doing enough to protect the communities that we say we serve? We we run around talking about justice and equity and we care about black and brown communities. Now's the time to show up. And that might mean risking everything that you know.
SPEAKER_01I want to contextualize what you just talked about because that action that that that you took was not an easy or reflexive action. You didn't just sort of rush into that. That took a lot of personal and organizational soul searching. And I I'd like you to talk a little bit about what that process was and and and how you talk to your team and how your team talked to you about it.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for noting that. I I think that um often people ask about what we're doing and the outcome of it and the results that we're seeking, but they never ask about the process. And I think that one of the um things that I want to describe to my peers in the field, especially, is that we are not like cowboys here just you know slinging at things. We are this is a very this was a very thoughtful multi-week process to come to the decision to join this case. The first um we were invited to consider into this case by another immigrant rights group that called um me and said, Hey, we know that you uh serve immigrant entrepreneurs. We know that you actually you serve um undocumented entrepreneurs that pay taxes, build businesses, own property, and there is uh an assembly uh that is happening, a team of folks that are coming together to think about how they can protect those workers and those entrepreneurs. Would you have a call? I was like, of course I would. Let's go. Let's like, what's happening? What are people talking about? And so that's how this began. And that snowballed into several weeks of information gathering with our team, with our staff and our board of directors, where we went back and forth talking about who the plaintiffs were, who the legal team was, uh, whether or not we could win, what the impacts of The potential taxpayer data sharing would have had on our communities. And just to context with you and further, Mike, when we pay our taxes, the law says that our data is private. When somebody pays their taxes and submits their information to the IRS, the law protects that data from being shared with another department to criminalize you. Now, there's a small section there that says that in some cases it could be shared, but it's only generally for criminal proceedings. Okay. And I'm not a lawyer, so but I'm happy to, if anybody's listening and wants to learn more, I'm happy to tap you in with our other legal team. But that's generally how it works, Mike. Your data is protected. You pay your data save, the government's taking care of your data. Now the administration wants to use that data to target immigrant taxpayers. And they want to share your data, share their data with the ICE and the Department of Homeland Security to criminalize you. That is something that has no legal precedent. So this lawsuit aims to stop that. It aims to clarify and to affirm that if someone is paying their taxes, that data cannot be used to criminalize you. We went through a whole lot of internal discussions about, you know, why that's important to us. And then we also did a whole risk analysis about, you know, what the organization may or may not lose. It was, you know, it's scary. Our board did their job of really asking tough questions about, well, you know, are we going to lose funding? What are other allies going to think of this? So we went through the whole sort of process of the journey of re- of of thinking about how are we going to, are we able to confront this bullying? And then we came to the place where we realized that, hey, you know what, we can add a unique value to this by telling the story of immigrant entrepreneurs that do pay taxes and how the law protects them.
SPEAKER_01In your nonprofit quarterly piece, you talked about the feedback, the very thoughtful feedback you were getting from members of your team as as they were contemplating this. Were they also going through their their own sort of spiritual struggle with this issue?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course. I think all of us are on the on the journey together. And uh for me, it was really important and special for us to talk about it together openly. We had staff meetings about it. We still have staff meetings to update uh folks on the on the case and what's going on. And uh we we created an internal working group of team members from different divisions of the organization to come together to think about how to collaborate and how to share uh the the appropriate information. But it was really interesting to me to walk with my colleagues as we were trying to figure out what our role is. At moments we're thinking, this is not our role, you know, we should let somebody else do it. Why us? Like, why would we do it? Who's you know, who are we to be involved in this? And um, and then we had another part of ourselves that was saying we must, we we have to. Like these are folks are entrusting us with their information. Um, you know, they would be really harmed if their data was shared.
SPEAKER_01And what has the reaction been among your peers, both to the lawsuit and to your writing about your feelings about this moment and the lawsuit?
SPEAKER_00It's been mixed. I I think that generally speaking, uh, we've received a lot of um love from organizations that probably also felt lonely and were stepping out in their own way, and then saw us stepping out in this way and said, Wow, thank you so much for doing that. Like, welcome, like, let's do this together. How do we share notes and support each other? It's been really cool to walk in solidarity with organizations like Cheatlam, for example, that has a, I believe they have like they're engaged in four students, you know, on a variety of different topics, you know. And so I think that um on one side of the aisle, I think that there's organizations that are inspired. There's been moments where people stop and you know, you know, hey, you know, you you work at inclusive action, right? I saw what you guys are doing. I think that's that's important, you know. And so those are those moments. Then there's other moments um where I talk to folks in our sector that are really um, I don't know, like they're just not bought into that. They're very, they're kind of focused on self-preservation. And they are they're like, I'm so glad that you're doing that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I've heard that before in my career. You know, that is, you know, that kind of I'm I sit with it a little bit, but they're like, I'm so glad that you're doing that. But this is all gonna pass, and you know, um, that's not our lane, and you know, we're not gonna get involved in that. And then you have other folks that are just really scared, Mike. That's also what we've experienced from folks that are really scared and they're wondering if they should stand with us. They're wondering if they should continue to support our work. And um, I get that too. I have compassion for that too, you know, but I have compassion because I understand the journey that it that we're all on right now to figure out how we step up to the bully or not. And so even though we're a little bit ahead of the a little bit ahead, like we we are stepping up to the bully. I'm not, I'm not here to to, I'm not lying to you saying that we're full of courage and no fear, and like we are, we are, we're walking together, but we're just we're advancing, you know.
SPEAKER_01It reminds me a lot of what's been happening with law firms and with colleges, where so many of them were just laying down and and and caving. And there's been this sort of pivot point nationally since Harvard stood up. Uh, and I think a lot of institutions are saying, okay, well, we can do it too. But there's a big difference between a world-renowned educational institution with a multi-billion dollar endowment and inclusive action. I mean, what Harvard did was great. I'm very, very glad, but it it's even more meaningful when when you and inclusive action do it, because it's a greater risk and it's a it's a a smaller entity taking on the bully.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I mean, but all of us have a role to play. I was super inspired by Harvard. You know, I I think one thing that I've been um trying to share with my colleagues in the field is that what we're doing um is very much possible within the nonprofit sector. And I think that that's also an education process for uh nonprofits, 501c3s, is that we can use legal strategies to protect our work and to protect our communities. Inclusive action believes that it will be directly harmed, or our communities will be directly harmed if the IRS shares uh data with ICE. And so we are using a legal strategy, uh, well within the bounds of a 501c3 structure to defend our communities and uphold legal precedent. And so I'm trying to demystify if I'm like, oh, I'm suing somebody. It's not it, it is, but we are it's a legal strategy that's very thoughtful. We have very talented attorneys, and we're we're doing it in conjunction with other partners in solidarity. And it's something that is um done a lot. And so I'm trying to demystify it a lot so more people can consider it. And I'm telling anybody that will listen that if you are being harmed, if your communities are being harmed in some way by the administration or anybody else, that you must consider how you can protect them. Um, and and and that is totally within the bounds of a C3 structure.
SPEAKER_01You you wrote that in in this process, the greatest obstacle wasn't deciding the merits of the effort, but overcoming the personal fears and insecurities that may have led us to retreat in the face of the bully. And then um and then you go on to to quote uh Father Greg Boyle uh from from Homeboy. And and he said, To be whole, we need to get our fears out of the way, to invite them in without judgment. This fearlessness becomes the contour of our ultimate joy. Having taken the action that you did, an inclusive action, are you or your team yet beginning to feel that ultimate joy?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think so. I mean, I feel like um we're closer together, you know. I think I think when you go through a big challenge together, whether it's this situation or something else, um, and you talk about it and you work through it, and you um you don't shy away from being in proximity to each other. You get closer and and and joy is there and love is there, you know. Um, I will always remember this time, Mike. And we're gonna have a ton of stories. I feel proud of the team. I feel proud to watch um Doug Smith, our vice pres our vice president of policy do his work, and Erica, our strategic communications director, Norma Santa Cruz talk to the clients and educate them about what's going on. Um, uh Maria Bianni, like talking about how, you know, um, you know, the immigrants are not criminals, you know, and and that's why this this uh lawsuit is critical and that participating in our formal economy is a good thing. And we are, you know, we are we are contributing to America. There's so much joy in each of those elements, but to watch my colleagues do this work, I'm just like, oh man, that's so awesome. And I'm always gonna remember this. And I'm gonna remember the partners that reached out, you know, like um, you know, uh that are checking in with us, and then and then vice versa. There's a community that's being formed, you know. And so, you know, just full circle, I shared at the top of the article and with you and this podcast that the the loneliness, that's how loneliness also disappears. So my hope is that this time uh opens that up for all of us, right? And that we're all exploring legal strategies that we're all exploring diverse ways to raise money to keep our work going, that we're finding new ways to engage our community because we're not doing a good enough job, or we're supporting our political leaders and encouraging them to overcome their personal fears, Mike, because I feel like that they they need to work on that too, like all of us. And we're on the journey together. Joy is in that whole process, you know.
SPEAKER_01It it's funny, as you're talking about this, I'm just I'm having flashbacks of the the months after Prop 8 passed, uh taking away uh same-sex marriage in California. And the the movement that that came out of that, people engaging for the first time, new leaders emerging, new new communities and new ties being built. And that I mean, that was a horrible thing that happened to my community, but I I look back on that as one of the most joyful and inspiring things I've gone through because of the the solidarity and the community that came about. It's really our strength, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we could do anything together, Mike. You know, so uh you know, I'm so happy that I picked up that call uh early on, even though it's been a scary journey, to be honest. Um, you know, it's it's so weird to like hear a federal judge talk about inclusive action in an official case, you know, to like listen to that. But it's been, I'm so happy that I picked up that phone call from that ally that said, hey, I know you guys work with immigrant entrepreneurs and some of them probably use iTunes. There's a case being formed, and we want to make sure that folks know that um if they overstee their visa, that's a civil, that's a civil issue, not a criminal issue. And they're not criminals, and and they should the IRS data should not be weaponized against them. And so I don't know, man. We're on this journey, and I'm I'm glad to know you, and I'm glad to know uh other folks, and we just kind of stick together and keep checking in with each other.
SPEAKER_01You you mentioned Father Boyle, uh personal hero of mine, at at the end of this. I haven't read the the newest book, Cherished Belonging, but it reminds me to. Um who else is uh sort of inspiring you or giving you faith in this moment?
SPEAKER_00Who's inspiring me, man? I'm I'm I'm seeking inspiration anywhere I can get it, frankly. Um, I this past week I'll tell you that I've been really like I've been on a Bob Dylan, like listening to all his albums the past week. And I'm like, why Bob Dylan? I think it's because I'm like inspired by his his futuristic thinking, you know, and I'm I and his ability to continue to transform, you know, Martin Luther King, you know, I've been really like searching through like his writings, and um, you know, he talks a lot about how we shouldn't be in the middle, you know, how we have to have we have to have this, we can't stand on the sidelines. And so I'm like I'm I search through his writings, um, Octavia Butler. You know, I've been telling people that if they haven't read Parable the Sower, they must and they should, and and just like her imagination, and they call her a prophet. And you know, be and in when in her interviews, if you look at her interviews, she was like, I'm just a curious person. I'm curious about humanity. And I just kept asking what could happen next. And I think that that's what we are right now, you know? Yeah, so inclusive action is doing this work because we're worried about we're asking ourselves what's gonna happen next if the IRS shares this data. Oh my god, that means that people are not gonna, they're not gonna create businesses, they're gonna be it, they're gonna be in the informal economy. That's not good. I I'm so inspired by Octavia Butler, you know, rest empowered, you know, and um I'm always open. Send me books, Mike.
SPEAKER_01I I will, you just put some on my list. I'd like to end the interview by having you read the the last line of your piece.
SPEAKER_00There are many strategies to defend our communities, but we must begin by being brave enough to confront our own fears to support the future we all deserve.
SPEAKER_01Amen. Amen. Rudy, thanks so much for joining me.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Mike.
SPEAKER_01If you'd like to read Rudy's essay in Nonprofit Quarterly, I link it in the show notes for today's episode. Also, please don't forget to listen to LA Podcast. On this week's episode, Alyssa Walker, Oscar Serate of Chirla, and I have a lengthy discussion about the Trump administration's policies towards immigrants and how it's impacting Los Angeles. We also talk about the significance of the May Day marches in Los Angeles for the battle for immigrant rights, especially the massive 2006 rally that drew well over a million participants. And we also get into some news about new transit developments in Inglewood and at LAX. Check it out. And of course, this coming Thursday is May 1, May Day, also known as International Workers' Day. Dozens of nonprofit organizations and labor unions are part of a May Day coalition that is organizing a march that is expected to draw an enormous crowd. The theme of the event is One Struggle, One Fight, Workers Unite. The rally is at 9 a.m. at Olympic and Figueroa in downtown Los Angeles. And the march, which will begin around 11 a.m., will proceed to the downtown LA Ice Detention Center. And one more note this coming Sunday, May 3rd, is LA Forward's annual spring into action garden party fundraiser from 3 p.m. to 6 p.m. You can get more info or buy tickets at the LA Forward website or at the link in the show notes. And that does it for this episode of What's Next Los Angeles. My thanks to Tanya Lucias for producing and LA Forward for sponsoring. And of course, to you for listening. Until next time, thank you. Take good care and peace.