What's Next, Los Angeles? with Mike Bonin
Los Angeles is at a turning point. We are living in a defining moment. What happens next is up to us. Over the past few years, problems and challenges have shaken this city -- and tremendous opportunities for change have presented themselves. How do we rise to this moment and emerge a better place to live? What will it take to create a more just and a more equitable community? Working together, how are we going to create a stronger, forward-thinking Los Angeles? Mike Bonin, writer, teacher, progressive activist and former City Councilmember, looks at the issues and problems facing Los Angeles, examines ideas, and talks with the people who will lead us to a brighter future.
Produced in partnership with LA Forward.
What's Next, Los Angeles? with Mike Bonin
Sorry, Not Sorry
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
"Sorry, Not Sorry!"
That's essentially the message of Nury Martinez, Kevin de León and Gil Cedillo, who spent the past week on a faux apology tour, trying to rewrite the history of the racist Fed Tapes scandal, and portray themselves, ridiculously, as the victims. Mike talks about it with Jelani Hendrix, former president of Black Los Angeles Young Democrats, Dr. Diandra “Dr Dee” Bremond, former board member of BLAYD, and Marco Santana, Democratic activist and former candidate for Council District Six.
Important Commentary:
Mike's Substack Column: The Racist Tapes, What I Heard
Gustavo Arellano on their BS excuses and use of Spanglish
Jasmyne Cannick’s column on KDL
Sahra Suleiman on the Seething Anti-Black Racism of KDL
NewsOne coverage of Nury's spin
Background Reading:
Summary of Nury’s LAist podcast interview
KDL and Gil sue over the leaked tapes
Nury’s Interview with NBC4 (10/12)
New Nury La Opinion interview
Gil’s Telemundo Interview
Gil’s La Opinion interview
Mike's Guests
Marco Santana - @marco4la on IG/threads, @MarcoforLA on X
Jelani Hendrix - JHendrix_4Prezident on IG
Dr. Dee Bremond- @mlkofthenewday on IG
What's Next, Los Angeles? is produced and hosted by Mike Bonin, in partnership with LA Forward.
A year ago, the release of the Fed tapes shocked Los Angeles. People heard the voices of some of their most powerful leaders engaged in ugly backdoor scheming. It was part of a conversation that included racist and wildly offensive language. Over the past week and a half, some of those voices have jumped back into the spotlight, saying essentially, sorry, not sorry. This is Mike Bonnin. Some special guests will join me today to discuss that faux apology tour on What's Next, Los Angeles. Hi everyone, and welcome to What's Next, Los Angeles. It was just over a year ago, on October 9th, 2022, that the LA Times in Knock LA reported on a secretly recorded conversation between three of my then council colleagues and a powerful labor leader. In a meeting that took place a year earlier, Council President Nuri Martinez, Councilmember Kevin DeLeon, Councilmember Gil Cedillo, and Ron Herrera, who was the head of the County Federation of Labor, conspired to increase their own political power by diminishing black political power and by kneecapping the emerging electoral strength of progressives and renters. The conversation included ugly, ugly, insulting racist language. It included vile remarks about blacks, Oaxacans, and Jews. It contained language offending the LGBTQ plus community and Armenians. I've often described the 75-minute conversation as a rapid-fire assault on most segments of Los Angeles. Their conversation was freewheeling and contained attacks on several political figures and community groups. Probably most notoriously, the conversation included racist and demeaning comments about my young son, who was black. I knew that there would be a series of one-year-later stories in the local press, but I really was not fully prepared for the Nuri Kevin Gill multi-front campaign that has been happening over the past week and a half. Essentially, they have been saying in one form or another they did nothing wrong, and they started portraying themselves as the real victims of the scandal. For me, it was a little surreal and disgusting, and I'm very interested in discussing with a few others about how they have perceived it and what they think of what the ramifications have been of the scandal a year later. So joining me today are three guests, friends and emerging voices in Los Angeles, who have insights and perspectives to share. And I'm going to let them introduce themselves. Marco, let's start with you.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. Hey everyone. My name is Marco Santana, longtime resident of the San Fernando Valley, born and raised, and actually have lived most of my life in Council District 6, which was this, the district which uh then Council President Nuri Martinez held. It's also where I've worked my entire adult career for the last 12 plus years. Super happy to be here and with the great panelists that we have too.
SPEAKER_04And just to sort of add context, uh Marco was one of the candidates who ran to succeed Nuri in the most recent election. And as I said, everybody here is sort of an emerging voice in Los Angeles that I certainly want folks to hear more from.
SPEAKER_00Jelani. Hello, everyone. I'm Jelani Hendricks, activist organizer here in Los Angeles. I live in Los Angeles for about 15 years now. I'm the former president of the Black Los Angeles Young Democrats. And I want to thank you for having me here tonight.
SPEAKER_04Uh you bet. And just uh by context, because I every time I let people introduce themselves, they sort of get too humble and don't talk about all the stuff they've done. You've also uh you've worked for community coalition in the past and for uh SEIU 2015.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. And you're doing, you've got your own business now, right? I do. It's called um Jade Strategies. It's a consulting firm primarily focused on youth development, civic engagement, community outreach. Um, been doing the we launched in around uh around January, so it's fairly new, but I think we're doing a good job. Excellent. Dr. D.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Councilmember Bonin. You'll forever be council member Bonin to me. Um hi everybody. Uh, happy to be here today. My name is Dr. DeAndro Bramond, but everybody calls me Dr. D. I am a gubernatorial appointee where I serve as the panel chair for the cannabis control appeals panel, as well as a political consultant. Uh, most recently serving as the senior advisor to the campaign for Shade El Haware for Assembly. I serve on a multitude of boards, but the intersection of my work is really in South Central and Black folks and women in politics. Uh, so this conversation is right up my alley.
SPEAKER_04Great. Well, thank you, all three of you, for joining me to talk about this today. Just to give everybody some context, people, some people listening have followed this very closely over the past week and a half. Uh, others have not. There's certainly been a a lot of other very significant and traumatic stuff in the news. But over the past week and a half, here's what's happened about the the players, the notorious players in these tapes. Kevin DeLeon and Gil Sadio filed lawsuits against the people who allegedly made the secret recording, claiming in those lawsuits that they themselves did absolutely nothing wrong and said absolutely nothing offensive. Nuri uh has continued to be featured in an LA-ist podcast where my characterization would be that she displayed more defiance and self-pity than remorse. Nuri and Gill have given Spanish language interviews that were, believe it or not, even worse. And Kevin gave an interview with the LA Times where he doubled down on the idea uh that he did nothing wrong as he uh seeks his re-election. Did I did I miss anything? Not at all. Uh so uh any of you uh sensing or seeing any sign of remorse from from any of these three?
SPEAKER_03Uh, you know, I definitely got a sense that during the interviews and the podcasts, like they do feel a small morsel of guilt, but I don't know how much of it is innate, like, you know, and excuse my language, but how much of it is innate, like I fucked up and I'm a terrible human being for saying these things, versus this is what society wants me to do and where I should be in my journey, quote unquote, right at this moment. I think the fact that you have both in the apology that was given by Nuri and the tapes by the podcast, you don't have a sense of remorse in the conversation. And the fact that Kevin and Gil not only are saying, Hey, I did nothing wrong, but are choosing to sue, I don't know. Like, this is not, you know, one of the things that I hope we can get into later, but you know, they all talk about how they were never given their chance to stay in office and to make amends and things like that. And I just want to highlight, they're not mutually exclusive. You can do the right thing by stepping down, and you can also do the right thing to build bridges, which I have not seen from any of them, except for this pity, like, oh, these were illegal, this was taken against me, this is so you know unlawful, and so on.
SPEAKER_01Uh Dr. D. Yeah, I I think when Marco, when you said uh they haven't been able to stay in office, it's super simple. Don't be a racist, you stay in office. I think that is a very simple value that our government officials at minimum ought to hold. Um, in terms of them being remorseful, all three of them, I don't expect or didn't expect them to be remorseful. Um, my dad would tell me if it looks like a duck, it's a duck. And we should believe who Nori and Gil and KDL, who they are. Um, but I think what's what's sadder is that we're seeing KDL seek uh office uh again, which speaks to the audacious uhness of this individual, particularly as they are anti-black. Like I take offense to that. You know, I'm supposed to, you know, I wanted to be in my political probe right now because I'm I'm running a campaign, but as a a black woman, uh infuriates me, and I'm I'm sure it infuriates many of the folks in our community, and it's just a slap in our face uh that basically says it's it's it's okay uh to be racist, it's okay to be anti-black, and it's unacceptable, and they get no other chances for me. I I believe in redemption, but I don't believe you come back from this.
SPEAKER_04Gielani, let me cue it up to you with a quote that was in uh Kevin's lawsuit. Gil is suing the two people who may have recorded it and the County Federation of Labor. Kevin's just suing the two people, but their lawsuits are almost word for word the same, and both of them say this, but I'll read it from Kevin's. The most glaring fact omitted from the public discourse over this conversation is that Mr. DeLeon never made any comment that was even remotely offensive during the conversation. He was in fact silent during those comments.
SPEAKER_00Is that how you remember it? No, not at all. I think they made a few comments about black activists. Um, I think one quote was Um, There's only like 25 of us in the city, but we act like there's 250 of us, minimizing our um our political power was all through those those tapes and recordings. Um and as far as them feeling uh having some type of remorse or apologizing, I I don't believe that they have any remorse. They don't feel bad. All this feels very scripted and planned. Um, it's exactly a year, and for them, I think it was an opportunity to come out the bushes and say, hey, um, we're still here, we're sorry, but you can't say, hey, I'm sorry, but at the same time say, hey, I didn't say anything racist. It just doesn't make any sense. So if you feel like you didn't do anything wrong, why are you apologizing? What are you apologizing for? Like Dr. D mentioned, right? I I believe in redemption as well, but I don't think you can be um no longer be in a position of power and represent a city like Los Angeles, one of the most diverse cities in the world, when you have anti-black sentiments, anti-indigenous sentiments, so on and so forth. Um, so we definitely cannot allow um uh Kevin DeLeon to get re-elected. I think it will send uh the wrong message not only to um folks in LA, but folks all over the nation because everyone watches what goes down in this in this city of ours. So I think it's very important um that, you know, maybe we forgive, but we don't forget. And allow these folks to um to be in any type of position of power. And I think it's quite sad that Kevin DeLeon is uh and Gil Sad are suing folks for for exposing what was going on behind the scenes. You know, you have these major influential leaders saying bad things uh about about their peers, about people's sons, about all these different ethnic groups. I think they did the city a favor. Whoever leaked those uh recordings is a hero in my eyes.
SPEAKER_04You know, it's it's it's really hard to seek forgiveness when you're not honest about what you did. And a year ago, in his rather notorious interview with Teva Smiley, uh Kevin DeLeon said a couple times that he felt shame and embarrassment for what he did. And now a year later, in his lawsuit, he says he never made any comment, even remotely offensive, and says he was silent. That's patently false. There were there was a conspiratorial tone, an anti-black tone in that conversation that that Kevin sort of drove. I can still hear that sort of conspiratorial whisper of his. And you know, he keeps saying, Oh, I should have interrupted uh the conversation. Bullshit, bullshit, he started the conversation. Even the part about my son, Nuri said the most offensive, disgusting things, but the the conversation about my kid happened because of Kevin. They they were talking shit about me, and Nuri said Bonham thinks he's F and Black, and Kevin said his kid is. His kid is. His kid is three times before Nuri took the bait. So Kevin played a a big role in that, and it's I think it's a real real fascinating to see to listen to what he said a year ago, and now he's saying the exact opposite now. The exact opposite.
SPEAKER_01If I may, Mike, I think when just because even if let's say like he didn't say anything damning. I I don't agree with that at all. And I'm I'm not a lawyer, and I'm I'm sure the the lawyers will have a field day with those conflicting arguments. But if I sat in a room with my peers, if I sat in a room with you, Jelani and Marco and allow racism or homophobia, I'm a bystander, and I think a bystander is no better than a bully. And if you took this oath um as an elected office, I think you also take take the oath of of doing no no harm. And and that's by your words, your actions, your beliefs, and you you have to speak up. Uh otherwise, you know, silence can can be damning. But there for allies um in this space to be a true ally, uh you you hold your peers uh accountable. I'm sure we all have bad actors in in our our networks, but I'm not gonna sit there and let people be racist. Well, I don't, you know, firstly, I'm black and gay. They're not gonna do any of that in front of me. But or at least I don't think they're that bold enough, but um, I'm gonna hold you accountable. And I think at the minimum, so should our government officials.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's interesting. You know, a year ago, I think Gil Cedillo might have agreed with you. A year ago, in his statement, he said it is my instinct to hold others accountable when they use derogatory or racially, racially divisive language. I should have intervened. But you know what? He gave an interview uh to La Pignon the other day, and he said, I'm not the police to cut off every conversation that's not right. We're not like little kids who say, Oh, that's a bad word. Oh, mom, look, this guy's saying this. It's not a reality that people live. Big change of tune over the past year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's obvious that they've got behind the scenes, got together once again to uh collectively change the narrative of went down last year. And it's it's it's very it's very sad. There's a lot of uh contradictions in what they're saying compared to last year, to this year, and I just I personally feel like we cannot allow them to get away with this and change the narrative. I think that this whole, like for me personally, I've seen a lot of brown residents, a lot of brown leaders actually step up and hold Nerdy, Gill, and Kevin DeLeon accountable. So it actually showcases that people in the Brown community for the most part do not align with their rhetoric, uh, do not align with what they were what they were doing. And I hope and pray that the Brown community and other communities as well, they step up this time around while they're trying to change the narrative because people are banking that you're gonna forget what happened. Like you let time pass, years gone by, they've probably been planning this for a while. Wait, wait, wait till wait for till people forget and get distracted. But I think as uh organizer and activist, this is a good time for us to step it up again.
SPEAKER_03I think Jelani, as as a Latino born and raised in Los Angeles, I could tell you that those aren't my Latinos. Like conversations like that happen in our communities, right? There's no doubt about it. You'll hear an uncle, an auntie, cousin saying something, right? But our generation, our people, that's not who we are. And I hope that similarly the people in that district make a statement this upcoming election and don't, right? And then just to add on to it, you know, one of the things in that interview with Lao Pignon is you also see Gil downplaying it. He's like, oh, I spoke with leaders in the black community, leaders in the Oaxacan community, and they said it's fine. It's they could take a joke, they could whatever. In addition to Ron Herrera and Gil Cedillo giving max out contributions to Kevin DeLeon, so not only are they downplaying what they said a year ago or two years ago that was released a year ago, they're also saying, hey, you know what? It's okay. I'm gonna max out to my boy Kevin, who was in this predicament with me, because we're all right, we didn't do anything wrong.
SPEAKER_04I I want to come back to to some of that about the way they're they're sort of talking to or talking about the Latino community. But first I want to focus on on something Nuri kept saying. In all of her interviews, she was saying, sorry for what I said, I didn't mean it. It wasn't racist. I was just really angry and frustrated. She said that like three or four times. Uh I had, I just had to do so much frustration and anger when I walked into that room. Uh everything that was going on during COVID with me as council president, uh, the amount of personal attacks on me that were just taking a toll on me. There's no excuse, but I just let my anger and my frustration get the best of me. When you use language like uh she did, uh, does uh anger and frustration justify it?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely not. Uh I was looking for I think one is like this, this shouldn't be. This isn't it's not rocket science. Um I I think that when you're you're angriest, uh you're the least inhibited, right? We we all walk and move through the world code switching, right? Because we have to. We have to go from our jobs to our homes to our spouses. And so we have to be different versions of ourselves. Uh, but when you are angry, similarly to when you are under the influence of alcohol, my mom used to tell me a drunk man tells no lies. Um, I I think you you show your your truest self. I think that each of them, I hope, do some deep personal work on where um this hate, right? I was looking for another word, but I think deeply seated and deeply rooted, uh, it's hate. Uh, and a part of it is systemic, and it's been ingrained in into our cultures for for many uh many, many years, hundreds of years. But they have to do the personal work. And until they're willing to do that personal work, um, they can't be remorseful. Uh, and I and I don't think that we can uh forgive them and give them another shot. I think forgiveness for us is for us so that we can begin to heal uh as a community uh in solidarity, right? Um but they gotta be willing to do the work and and and none of these folks are are saying that I fucked up. I am gonna take a pause and a long look in the mirror at myself and and learn to understand um and and get better. And and then I don't know who's advising these people, these these publicists, because I know they have them. Um but they should all be fired. I mean it makes no sense. Even if they're not willing to do that, you'd imagine that these this is the narrative, and and these would be uh the taglines. But um I think you hang out with like-minded people, and the people who are working with them or for them um are likely cut uh from similar cloths. And I think you're seeing that in the dialogue that has been taking place uh post one year from from these this sad day in the city of LA.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they um all three of them struck a tone of um uh uh of saying that they were the victims, uh that this was a a conspiracy against them. Kevin, uh a few times over the past year has sort of played up the idea that uh on the tape and since in his re-election campaign that that that blacks and and white progressives are trying to force him and and other Latinos uh uh out of power. Uh both Nuri and Gill in their interviews talked about how black leaders got together uh to conspire against them and try to get them to resign. Nuri said she was abandoned by Latino leaders because uh African American leadership really got to them and and and pressured them. And and and Gill, man, he went uh he went kind of full Trump on on his. He said um that uh they were forced out by a a a mafia led by the LA Times, by Democratic Socialists. America, by Nika Sun Chong, the daughter of the publisher of the LA Times, and by uh Unises Hernandez, Nitya Rahman, and Hugo Soter Martinez. Um, it was it was really wild.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think he went as far as saying, don't like trust the media or something, get off the internet, get off the news. He's like, I went outside and I just some something along those lines. But I got that same undertone from Gil's interview with La Pignon of him saying, don't trust, you know, using Trump rhetoric essentially, saying don't trust what you see on the media, the internet, and so on, um, and really bashing uh journalists, which I thought Gus's retort to that, Gusariano with the LA Times, was actually a really good one. And and language and the tone of looking at language and code and switching from English to Spanish to Spanglish was just so true. Like when I'm having conversations with friends, like the Spanglish will just ease out as we're going deep into a subject. And I thought it was it was very legit. I think, you know, in addition to that, like regardless of if those comments were just out of frustration, they were very racially charged comments. And you can't take that away. Like when I get angry, I don't become a racist all of a sudden just because I'm mad, right? Like, like there's a clear divide in that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, some people go for a walk, they go for a gym, they have a drink. Uh, you know, uh most people don't go off racist tirades. Uh, you know, one of the things Nuri said in talking about how she was sort of victimized by the press coverage is that people didn't really hear the full conversation. You know, uh, she said it lacked context. Uh Kevin said there was more nuance that that people didn't get. Jelani, as I'm saying that, you're shaking your head, you're rolling your eyes, go at it.
SPEAKER_00I just find it very interesting that um that they're all saying that people conspired against them, but they're the ones that were doing the conspiring the entire time. That's what the what the recordings um showcased, um, right? Or like they're the victims. The victims are the marginalized people in this city. So they are they are essentially flipping the script, right? We're the victims. You you guys are are trying to harm us, hurt us. It's actually the the other way around. Like you guys sat down for an hour and a half and strategically were plotting to eradicate black political power in Los Angeles, right? And we're the most marginalized, in my opinion, the most marginalized community in this city. Um, so it's very um very sad, and they're really trying to manipulate people. And I hope that the people in the 14th district don't fall for it. Uh I'm I'm really I'm really counting on them to make sure uh KDL does not get elected because we probably only know the tip of the iceberg, right? That's one conversation. What else is being discussed? What else is being said? So it's yeah, this is like um Marco mentioned, this is like a play from from uh the right wing to make you believe the opposite of what's actually going on in real life and real time in your face. And that's why I kind of like laughed and rolled my eyes. I I it's just hard for me to believe. You know, it's like, do you think I'm stupid? That's I kind of take it personal. You know, it's not personal, but I'm taking it personal.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, because it's funny to hear them talk about the context of it, right? Because I think they're betting that a year later, the thing that most people remember, the thing that got the most attention were the comments about my son, right? Those are the things that everybody around the world, like, this is just absolutely disgusting. These people have to go. But the context of the conversation that they keep saying people aren't paying attention to, the context of the conversation was was just sort of seething anti-blackness from from point to point on the conversation. The context of the conversation was about sort of consolidating their own power. It was about sort of kneecapping uh nithia and making sure that renters weren't well represented. They were they were trashing community coalition. Like they weren't just trashing uh African Americans, they were trashing just the whole idea of sort of a multiracial coalition. The context makes them look even worse.
SPEAKER_01I I think even like the people that you you you mentioned, right, thinking of community coalition, um, which was founded by by our now mayor Karen Bass, right? Uh it was this idea that a a black woman would be leading the city of Los Angeles. And and what I don't think most folks are taking into consideration, right, there is a conversation and conversations that need to be had and continue to be had around uh black and brown relations, because let's keep it a buck, right? There there are deeply seated issues. Uh, and and these tapes didn't come from from nowhere, but I come from the belief that if you take care of the needs of the oppressed black individuals, not just in the city of Los Angeles, uh, period, we are taking care of all of those who are marginalized and disenfranchised. Um, and so I think that's the the first part of this this question. Uh, but I don't think that folks are explicitly calling out uh anti-blackness and what this means like means and how it continues to permeate throughout all sectors of government, not only in the city of LA. But this is what the uh California is the sixth largest world economy. My stats could be dated now. If if if this is happening in here, um, we know that that these ideologies are overt uh in our country. And we've seen that in in 2016, which I won't even name. And and very well, as we're coming up on a presidential election, these racially cards conversations um and and rhetoric in media is going to begin to take place again. So we need to be very careful. We need to have open dialogue like we're having with you, and we need to ensure that we, both black and brown Angelinos, lock arms. Um, because make no mistake, there is a mission to divide us because we are much stronger uh together. And and the the cost of not doing so, I don't even think can be articulated.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I agree with everything Dr. D just mentioned. I think it's very important to have these tough conversations. They're not easy to have, but it it has to happen. Um, and I don't think people really understand how deeply, deeply rooted anti-black racism is um in particular communities and particular institutions. And I was at a meeting one day with some community members, and one of the things that I mentioned, or one of the people I brought up, was Rod Herrera, because I think out of everyone, he gets the least amount of attention. And and Councilmember Bon and you know, this labor has a lot of power when it comes to uh and we're talking one of the you know LA County Feds, probably the biggest in the nation collectively. And uh and my my time at 2015 wasn't long, but I did have the the uh opportunity to meet Ron Herrera and I asked, and I actually met his granddaughter as well, who happens to be half black. And in that meeting, I said anti-race, anti-black racism is so entrenched in our community that a man with a with a granddaughter who's half black is having these type of conversations, right? Like when you have you're actually talking about your own flesh and blood, right? People that look like them, you're you're you're trying to further suppress them. Um, so I think it was kind of uh an eye-opening um event for a lot of us. And like I've mentioned before, it's a it's a tough conversation. It definitely needs to happen. So community leaders from all over the city need to figure out ways that we can just build more solidarity amongst each other because it's easier to conquer us when we're divided. But honestly, I've seen more non-black allies step up and and and and hold everyone in those recordings accountable versus folks actually standing up with them. So I do appreciate that. And that makes that lets me know that there is hope to have a brighter future in the city.
SPEAKER_04Marco, are you uh seeing an attempt at all by uh the people who are hurt on these tapes to uh try to continue dividing the black and brown communities?
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, most definitely. I mean, I think just by the tone of them trying to downplay their comments and picking and choosing, right? Like earlier, as was mentioned, they're saying, Oh, I spoke with leaders in ex-community and they said it's okay. You know, X-person isn't the voice of the entire community, right? Like Jelani might say, Oh, Marco, you are cool or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And D might be like, No, I'm not that way, right? As a black person, I don't identify with this, I don't agree. And Jelani just pointed it out, right? While leaders might have had those conversations, as up-and-coming leaders in the black community, both Dr. D and Gelani were not in agreement with that. And so communities are not a monolith, right? And so for me to try to pit communities against each other and essentially gaslight people to believing, like, no, no, this is okay. And I didn't say anything wrong, but even if I did, it's fine. Um, I definitely see that, right? And I think there's a couple things that stood out as the conversation was going on. You know, I this there's something that we have in the Latino community, and I'm sure it's in other communities as well, but the crab theory, right? Like we're all crabs in a bucket trying to get out, and nobody's trying to help each other. And instead of trying to lift each other up and be this rising tide, we just pull each other down. Um, but simultaneously within black and brown communities, but then what I saw from the conversations that Nuri, Gil, Kevin, and Ron were having was a sort of struggle Olympics. You know, it was, well, the black people aren't, you know, even they're only 8% of the community, blah, blah, blah. So we need to empower Latinos. And by doing that, that means we're gonna disenfranchise the black people. And that's not how this works, right? Like we can be a rising tide and we can be stronger together. But instead, the conversations that we're having were we're gonna do better on the behalf of your on behalf of like this population, right? Um, so yeah, most definitely. I don't I don't think they've atoned for any of what they've done. They're just coming back a year later trying to say, like, oh hey, you know, it's not my fault.
SPEAKER_04Well, in in a weird way, they're there it sounds to me like they're subtly trying to imply that the the criticism of the words they used uh is in itself racist against them. You know, um, you know, Nuri talks about how the word is is not offensive. Kevin said it was taken out of context. Gil said our community doesn't care about what was said, they understand Spanish, our culture, they know our history. I mean, Gustavo Ariano in the time slapped them for pretty hard on that tactic. Uh, but that they they continued to sort of you know drill down on it. Gil even took it so far as to say that this was part of an effort to undo driver's licenses for immigrants, to undo the the DREAM Act, uh, to dismantle the the Office of Immigrant Affairs in City Hall. I mean, they they they they really took it to this this whole degree, trying to say that you know, not only they, but the entire Latino community is a victim of this conspiracy against them.
SPEAKER_03I think what's important to note on that is where that conversation was had was at La Opinión, which is a Spanish newspaper art company where majority of Latinos who are monolingual they digest their news from, right? And so if I'm reading something from a trustworthy, what I consider trustworthy news outlet, um, because it's a Spanish specific news outlet, and it's saying, hey, these people are clearly coming against us. The Democrat, Democratic Socialist, the Black people, the this and that, they're trying to disenfranchise all the work we've done for Latino people. Like that is the that is the narrative right there, right? The question you asked. Like they're intentionally doing it. Is anybody buying it?
SPEAKER_01Oh man, gas is six dollars a gallon. I'm not buying that.
SPEAKER_04Well, here's here's you made an interesting point, Marco, that uh they they were speaking uh in these sort of harsher terms in Spanish language media. Most of the interviews they have done have been with Spanish language media. Uh I think Nuri, I think LAST told me that for Nuri it was very important to talk to a Latina reporter on LAST. Even the English language interviews they've done have been with Telemundo and have been uh sort of cross-promoted on NBC 4. You know, Tabasmiley has said, you know, why why why the hell aren't they coming to the black community and talking to the people they offended most? Nuri said in one of her interviews, this is a quote here, I ask for the forgiveness of my community for having left them behind. I made a mistake by using a tone and words I shouldn't have. I insulted people. It was not my intention, and I disappointed and I bear the blame for having disappointed my community. An apology directly to and for the Latino community. Has anybody heard Nuri or Kevin or Gil or Ron for that matter make an apology like that to the black community?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely not. And I I I tell you what, as a consultant, um uh any of them can call myself Jelani. I'm sure Marco will bring you in on the project. If they want to sit in some real black and brown communities and have some real dialogue, uh, we are happy uh to put that together. Um I'm in South Central uh every day fighting uh for both black and brown communities. Hell, I'm I'm heading up, I think, uh, a race which we won't even get political, but is built on black and brown solidarity. And so those words of of just my community uh does not encompass the mosaic of not only Los Angeles, but it doesn't encompass the people who are hurt the most, particularly uh those of the black community. And I find it offensive. If you truly were apologetic, you just say, hey, I fucked up. And I am sorry to the black community, I'm sorry to the brown community, I'm sorry to the Oaxacins, um, and and whoever else I harmed um during during these conversations. Uh, but I think what we're seeing is an act of desperation uh and an attempt, right, to then again get KDL elected. And the reality is many of the constituents um are of the Latino community. Um and so this is about shaping a narrative to get that community and those constituents back. But I I ask uh those people who live in that district, but at what cost?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're definitely playing race politics. Um it's a sensitive topic for everyone, right? Whether you're indigenous, black, brown, Asian. You want to see people in power that look like you because you believe that they can relate with you and serve your interests. They have your have they have your best interests at heart. Um, so I, you know, I'm pretty sure a lot of folks that lived in the 14th district, other places in LA were devastated because they were, you know, feeling like, wow, like our leaders are being taken out, right? And I'm taken out, I'm not really talking about what they did was good or bad. It's just that, you know, it definitely did not feel good for that community. Um, but at the end of the day, uh what I don't like is people like Gill using this opportunity to say, hey, they're trying to erase and take everything that we've done, all the pieces of legislation that that um that empower us brown folks, they want to take that back. And it's like, no, no one's taking that away. No one's gonna undo any of that stuff, right? We want leaders uh from the brown community to empower brown folks. We just want them to do it without suppressing other groups of folks. And I just think it's uh it kind of once again back to the Trump thing, right? It's like coded language, like like a uh right, like I'm gonna blow this whistle that only these people can hear and relate to. Trump does it with his supporters. And I kind of feel like Gil's trying to reach and throw some bait out there and see who's gonna take the bait and and come and be on his side and help him get back uh to prominence. And it's it's it's quite pathetic, in my opinion, for a lack of better term, trying to be nice as possible.
SPEAKER_03I think what we also do by embracing the terminology and the and the kind of rhetoric that Gil is putting out there is negate a portion of the population. There's, I think I saw a stat that said there's 250,000 people that identify as Afro-Latino. And you could be Afro-Latino and be undocumented, you could be African and be undocumented, you could be any color, ethnicity, race and be undocumented. So to drive the narrative that, like, oh, because I, as a Latino and former council member am being targeted for racist things I said and partook in, that's disenfranchising now the Latino community only. Um, it's taking a lot away from the identities of other people. And it's it's you know, putting Latinos in a box of what we look like. That's an excellent point.
SPEAKER_04Uh another thing that that's not lost on me is that, and and honest to God, I I I thought that that Gil and Nuri and Kevin would understand this. And if they do, it makes it even more cynical that they're playing things this way. Is that when you have a dynamic where where black where it's black versus Latino and the two are fighting against each other in a zero game, the only person who wins in that is like the the the white elite, right? I mean, the black community doesn't win, the brown community doesn't win, it's it's the establishment that wins, it's it's the systemic racism that wins. Uh and it's you know, it's kind of by design, and they're they're they're they're playing into it. There were there there was so much attention when these tapes came out, right? It was an international news story. Um a lot of it initially uh focused on sort of the personal comments uh about my son and my family, and then it it quickly broadened as it should have to the the broader anti-black racism. And and you know, every you know, television station around the country, some foreign stations did stories. Uh seems like everybody heard about it. What do you think was missed? What do you think wasn't discussed in all of the coverage, either now or then?
SPEAKER_01I I think that we are failing and continue to fail in this conversation uh to look at the depths of anti-racism in our government and the role that it is playing not only in the policies but in the lives of our people. Um and the academic in me says there we need to take a much deeper dive, but I think as a community person, we need to take have much deeper conversations. Because unfortunately, this rhetoric and and this tactic and these tools are not new. And in order to begin to erase uh and break down the systemic issues here, right, in our country and in our in the state of California and Los Angeles, I think every transformation starts with dialogue. So you can't have these fluffy, sugar-coated, bullshit conversations that we have at these community healings. We really need to have some some I like to call these raff agreements in the classroom space where we're being real as fuck. Like this is a deep, deeply seated issue. And how do we move from where we are to a solution? Or otherwise, a year from now, we'll be talking about another council member or someone in another state. And it's Exhausting. And so enough of the political pandering. Let's really roll up our sleeves and do the work to kill heal the communities. And if our government officials aren't gonna do it, then let's look to our community-based organizations who most of the time lead these conversations anyway. Let's pump the resources so that if we really want to heal this city, we're able to do that. But we we no more no more sugarcoating. I want raw and unedited conversations, just like the four of them were having on that day.
SPEAKER_04A charter amendment to tape every conversation an elected official has, regardless of who they are. That would shake things up for sure.
SPEAKER_00I just want to add something that to um what Dr. D said. I think it was spot on. I think the other side of it was the solidarity piece. Uh, because if you, you know, I have people, relatives from Chicago, Miami, all these different places asking me, calling me what's going on. Because you know, they they know I'm pretty involved politically, and they look at it as if black and brown folks are divided. And to a certain degree, there is some tension between all communities. Um, but what people fail to realize is when those recordings came out, everybody stood up, everybody went to city council, right? Black, white, Asian, brown, and was all in solidarity saying enough is enough, you have to go. So I think that's the piece that's missing. Like this brought to this tragedy brought together a lot of different folks. Um and uh it's unfortunate that it had we had to come together because of the tragedy, but nonetheless, you know, for me, it was uh it was a flash point for us to continue to build more solidarity. So so yeah, we gotta have those conversations, but we seen people stand up united in solidarity um last year after those recordings were were leaked.
SPEAKER_04Marco, what do you think was missing from the conversations?
SPEAKER_03Man, I think Dr. D'Angelani were perfect. I think um, you know, one of the things that stood out is we so often have these conversations around DEI and like what can change, what can change, and we just talk about it with never actually coming to like tangible solutions. And I think that's one of the things that we have seen. But I know that like I remember after the tapes, like I felt like I had been hung over the next day. Like there was so much drama, everyone was talking nonstop about it. I was like, I'm over this, like I'm not over it, but like, like, man, it's all everyone is talking. Oh, what's gonna happen next? What this, that, the other. Um, but seeing that unity, and and you know, big shout out to you two, because I saw y'all up there in City Hall at the front, um and and representing and stuff, and just seeing the unity that was was like, let's let's be real, they talked about every single community, right? They even talked about the Latino community talking about Wahawkins, and everyone just came together and we showed solidarity, and I love all of it. You know, and I think one of the things that actually did did stand out, one of the things that wasn't really talked about is during the conversations, we you know, they they like to preface it as saying, like, oh, we were trying to focus on how do we hold and empower Latino leaders further. One of the things that gets left out is that through the community um driven advisory council for the redistricting that the city of LA had, there would have been an additional district in the San Fernando Valley, mind you, that would have had a majority Latino uh CVAP, uh citizens' voting age population, which would have given us an additional Latino, potentially, right, council member, which would have also taken away at large what they called economic engines, and which happened to be in Council District 6, such as the Van Nuys Airport, Anheuser-Busch, and Lake Balboa. It would have created its own district in the middle of the valley. And, you know, Nuri, even in the tapes, is like, this wasn't about me. This wasn't about us consolidating power. This was about us helping Latinos and keeping Latinos in power. We would have had an additional Latino elected potentially, right? And that right was taken away because the citizen-drawn map that was brought to city council just got thrown out the window because Nuri didn't like it essentially. You were there at the time. Like I think that's as plain as it was. It was like, nope, I don't like this, not what I want.
SPEAKER_04Well, and their their argument that they were out for Latino representation, not their own personal political power, that that that fades away real quick when you realize that in part of the conversation, uh, they were talking very specifically about uh defeating Hugo Soto Martinez against Mitch O'Farrell. Unseeding a Latino incumbent uh against or unseating a white incumbent with uh uh a progressive uh grassroots uh Latino alternative. You know, I read about this a bit on Substack this week. I I felt that there was a lot of nuance that that got sort of missed in in the conversation because it it became such a soap opera, right? It was okay, she resigned from the presidency, is she gonna resign from the council? Is Gil gonna resign? Is Kevin gonna resign? Uh, who's Kevin talking to today? You know, is council gonna shut down today? That I I wish I had I wish I had found a way to use the the platform I had in that week or so to try to educate predominantly, I think, white people who were were paying attention to the issue about things that that they don't realize about systemic racism. Right. The the the thing that struck me, not even so much at the time, but as I was listening to stuff over the past few weeks, Nuri's very story about my son, less than three years old, uh being so physically strong he was and wild he was gonna tip over afloat. Uh I mean, she was, you know, taking a child, treating him as an adult, as we have seen happens to to black men and women, black boys and girls consistently with all sorts of negative consequences. And then she said, I want to take him around the corner and I want to give him a beatdown. Right? I mean, that that again, an example of the sort of cultural paradigm where where we're young black children uh are faced with in incredibly worse, harsher, more significant, and more frequent discipline than white kids and other kids. And I I don't think most white people know that. I don't know that I would know it if I didn't have a black child. And I wish that there could have been more learning moments out of this so that when all those people who showed up and were paying attention and were saying this isn't us, that there was an opportunity to take them from sort of the objection to the slur to addressing some of the systemic stuff that keeps eluding us.
SPEAKER_00So two things, council member. Um I'll start off with like the the um the comment about your son um having the ability, a three-do having the ability to tip over a float. I didn't mean to laugh, it's not funny, but um sometimes we gotta laugh to not cry, but that's something that is embedded in American history, right? Like um, if you look at even this incident with Trayvon Martin and the way he was murdered, right? Like, you know, what a 10-year-old black boy might as well be a 21-year-old black man. And I have a son at the time he was three, so I really um felt a certain type of way about that. And I made some comments about that at City, uh, city at the city council meeting. Um, but people always come to my son or come to me, hey, your son is so cute. And you know, of course, I always thank him and all of that, but I've always asked myself, okay, in 10 years, how are you gonna view him? Right? When he's my height, my size, and 13. Like, are you gonna you're not gonna be having those same same thoughts? And it's a lot as a father, right? Like, I it's hard to prepare him for that, even though I've experienced it my whole entire life. I still don't know if I even have the tools to prepare him for that. And then number two, uh, council member, I think you need to give yourself some grace. Um, because like you are in the middle of all of this, and you're you're right now saying, I wish I could have done this, I wish I could have done that, but I think your track record speaks for itself. You lead by example, um, right? Black Lives Matter wanted you to be the new um council president. They're calling for that, right? Like that speaks volumes of who you are and what you've uh what you've done. Um but at the end of the day, in those recordings, you know, not only were they trying to eradicate black political power, they called you out and they called DA Gascone out because you stand with black people. Right, you stand with black people. Gascone, right? I want to reform uh the criminal justice system that impacts black folks disproportionately, right? You you have a black son, you you've you you stand in solidarity with black folks. Um, so I think you've you've led by example, but like that's like they don't even like people who want to do right by black people. Like it's it's crazy. So I just wanted to add that really quick.
SPEAKER_04Uh thank you. I I I I appreciate that. It's even a year later, there's still a lot to process. I I should mention, I think I'm correct, it was it was Black LA Young Dems that that made what became the the hottest t-shirt in Los Angeles a year ago. The I'm with the blacks t-shirts, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it's it's funny, like um in our group chat. Me and uh me and D are not a part of Blade anymore, but we're still in a group chat, they won't let us leave. Uh I'm tired. Yeah, we're tired. Um man, but they sent a uh someone put a picture in a group chat yesterday with Mayor Garcetti wearing our shirt. And I was like, this is so iconic. Um it was definitely an iconic moment, uh, something I won't forget. Um, people in Massachusetts were asking for little shirts. That may have been my parents.
SPEAKER_01It's something to hear, something, uh, but to see it um written out, um, I I think showed uh uh a sense of solidarity that we had no idea would be this viral moment and and catapult us in many ways uh to be having conversations um like we are having today. We we simply were we were hurt, we were angry, um, and we wanted to do something, you know, in our our small um roles and our capacity. And and we showed up at city council, we wanted to support you. I I think we gifted you with a shirt. Yes, you did. Um and and and and made our statements heard. And it was a moment I I won't forget.
SPEAKER_03Um no, I just you know, something you said sparked something. You mentioned you were heard, your anger and frustration were heard. Um out of just out of curiosity, when you were angry and frustrated, did that did that lead to racially charged comments to come out of your mouth at any point?
SPEAKER_01Because it seems like that's I don't think I became racist that day, Marco. That is an astute observation. I don't think it works like that.
SPEAKER_02Um people turn into the Hulk, some people become racists, others protest. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um sort of trying to wind up here, for the for each of you, we we started this by asking, you know, uh are are they showing remorse? And I think it was pretty clear that that they're not. Um is there a path for them to forgiveness and redemption from from you and or from Los Angeles?
SPEAKER_01I'll say this first. I am a 100% human and I fuck up daily. Uh and thus I do believe in a path of redemption, uh, particularly right as a black person, thinking about our criminal justice system. Uh, we we cannot count people out. And I believe I believe I'm in the the business of restorative justice. I'm also I don't talk about it often, but I'm a Christian woman. And who am I to to judge you? So for me personally, I I've already forgiven uh the four of them. I I I move through each day with with not any hate uh on my heart for for any of them. Um in fact I I will pray for them again so that they continue to do, or the willingness rather, to do the work um that they need to become better evolved uh humans in terms of redemption uh with their constituents. I think that's why we have a democracy. And we will see, right? KDL will be on a ballot. I do find it interesting, and I didn't talk about this, that uh Blade uh after that city council meeting, we sat down with President Kerkorian, uh Jelani, and um some other key leaders and myself, and there was no nothing in charter that you could remove a government official for being racist. And I think it speaks to uh the value that that we place on on certain lives. And so until um those four individuals and many other folks reckon with the value that they are placing on other humans' lives, redemption uh will not will not be theirs. Um and I'll close in saying my mama will say on a Sunday morning that the battle is not mine, it is definitely the Lord's. So again, I appreciate you, um, Mike, um, and Jelani and Marco. Marco, we were behind you big time. Um, and the future is definitely bright for you. So um, thank you.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I I agree with Dr. D's sentiments, right? Like, I I don't think about Mary Martinez and them. I got bigger fish to fry. I'm working, I got a whole daycare at my house full of kids. I'm just like I, you know, so for me at the moment, yes, I was hurt. But like I mentioned, like I mentioned earlier in the program, right? We could forgive, but not forget. Like we would be crazy to say, okay, you know, Kevin Delion, let's let's go ahead and allow you to be um a city councilor for another 40 years, or okay, Nuri, let's, you know, let's allow you to be an elected official again in some type of um capacity. No, we we can't we can't do that. And we're forgiving, so we don't hold that weight in our hearts and our souls, right? That's for us, right? That's not for them, you know, and I hope that you know they're able to have peace with themselves because I know that they embarrass themselves, embarrass their family, right? They embarrass the people that work for them, that go to that office every day, right? Like there are people that are that were in them clubs that work for some of these folks, and then they have to go back to their, you know, it it was it was a mess. It impacted, you know, uh a lot of people, right? Their kids. Um, so I hope that they can be at peace and have a have a good life. But as far as having um a leadership position in this city or any city at that, when you're making decisions for for people of all of all races and and and ethnic groups and creeds, like no, you you certain there's just certain mistakes that you can make a mistake, like you can have a car accident, right? That doesn't mean we're gonna take your license away. Like, right? We all make mistakes, but certain mistakes don't allow you to do certain things any anymore. And the last thing I would say is we need to start a campaign and track who's giving uh Kevin Delion campaign contributions. Like I'm so so interested in who is giving this man money. I really want to know. Um, and we need to hold them accountable, like, because they are they are the biggest enablers out here right now. So maybe since you asked, uh just a few of them.
SPEAKER_04You have Sacramento mayor Daryl Steinberg, uh former state senator Martha Iscutia, Lancaster Mayor Rex Paris, former LA City Council member Dennis Zine, Gil Sidio, Ron Herrera. Um I I believe um the the husband of uh former Garcetti Chief of Staff Anna Guerrero, Bill Burke, the uh spouse of uh Yvonne Brathway Burke and father of former Assemblymember Autumn Burke. Uh the chief strategy officer for diversity, equity, and inclusion at USC. Mario Beltran, the former uh Maywood mayor who was charged with corruption, former Coastal Commissioner Mark Vargas, the wife of lobbyist Michael Legrande, and some nonprofit leaders. We'll be paying some more attention to this list of donors in the week to come. When you ask, you shall receive Justina.
SPEAKER_00I was not expecting that, but they're getting it all queued up. Oh no.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03Uh Marco. You know, very similarly, I agree. I think there is a path to redemption. Um, I'll I'll keep this part. I feel like I ramble sometimes. I'll keep this part short. Um I think there's a path to redemption, but a year out, let's look at what they've done. And let's also look at what the conversation they're having today is like. And I don't think any of the actions they've done over the last year or any of the words they're saying today resemble like truly looking inward and finding you know that remorse and trying to make amends and apologize to all the communities that were hurt. I mean, I don't know you, and you definitely don't have to answer this, but have any of them even reached out to you over the last year and said, hey, Mike, like I fucked up, right? As a peer, as a person in the city, a leader, like I fucked up. You don't have to forgive me, you don't have to, but I'm apologizing. Like, I I don't know if they have, you don't have to answer, but I would probably guess no, right?
SPEAKER_04You you would guess correctly. I heard the day the story broke, Gil texted me a copy of his statement. Uh Kevin called and left a voicemail, which I thought lacked sincerity and contrition and and and and wasn't very effusive. And Nuri made a phone call, got my voicemail, and did not leave a message. Um, so that was sort of the extent of it. I I I would say I think uh a lot of you are further along in your path to forgiveness than than I am. Understandably. But you know, I actually I I want them to get there. You know, I I was not on good terms with any of them by the point they made this, but certainly when the tapes came out, and apparently at the point the tapes were made as well. But I have great respect for a lot of the stuff they did. I mean, Kevin did uh amazing things on climate change in Sacramento. You know, Gil was a tremendous leader for the undocumented immigrant community. Nuri was my co-sponsor on the minimum wage increase and on trying to redirect money into lower income neighborhoods. I mean, they all did really significant things, and I hope that they get to be remembered by them. But I I looked up on psychology today the the definition of a true apology, and I won't read it because Marco just kind of hit on it uh about the the the things that it takes to make a real apology and their their acknowledgement of what they did and and their remorse and their willingness to make an amends just does not seem to me to be there, and I haven't heard others uh say that it that it is. And and the other thing I'll say just to sort of wrap things up is I I think a lot of people are wondering if if I'll forgive them because they sort of take it as the comments about my son would then be forgiven. And that ain't how I'm I'm not doing that. If a decade from now they want to make a direct apology and amends to my son when he's old enough to understand it, they can, but that's his right, and I'm not gonna you know give it away so so they get to say, you know, kumbaya, all is forgiven. That's that's that's not their right, and it's not my right for that to happen. So well, it has been a wild year, and I don't think this is certainly not the end of hearing from Kevin DeLeon, because he's up for re-election, and I think it's pretty unanimous we'll all be looking to see him defeated. But I don't think it's uh the last we're we're hearing of the others as well. So perhaps we'll get to talk again. Um, thank you, all three of you, for joining me, Jelani Hendricks and Marco Santana, and Dr. D. Uh thank you all so much. Uh my thank you to Brian Holmes for editing and producing this podcast, and my thank you, of course, uh to all of the listeners. I'll be back soon with another episode of What's Next, Los Angeles. Until then, peace and take good care.